Curse

majoho · May 08, 2010, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I do believe I have a strong case, as many other people stated in my previous thread...

I didn't notice people said you had a strong case... most people in that thread said the opposite.

Infanta · May 08, 2010, 09:52 PM // 21:52

I can't believe people are going to waste their time crying to the BBB because they got their GW account banned...

Perpetua Gale · May 08, 2010, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Firstly... Ncsoft has their American offices in Austin..this is where your issue is to be filed with.
As far as what issues they will help you with, I would NOT take any random post telling you it is legitimate or not.... file your complaint..it is a very easy walk through on their site in Austin, and let the BBB decide what they can do for you.
Remember, the BBB is a non profit organization the more people they help the more money they get from the government.... helping you makes them money!
I doubt they will do much for you if someone scammed you for a run somewhere... but hey you never know.
If NCsoft is not addressing your issue and you feel it is legit contact the BBB it will get their attention real fast. At least it has for me..:~)
FYI someone ask what are some other company grades..... I did see that Activision had a score of D-..... ouch.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 08, 2010, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infanta

I can't believe people are going to waste their time crying to the BBB because they got their GW account banned...

If it is for so-called fraudulent reasons (and no such thing took place), then yeah, I would suggest doing so. They paid for the game and paid for/were paying for additional stuff, so they do have the right to, especially when the company themselves are being hard to deal with. Given that the OP has said NCSoft has got a C- rating, and given what happened in the other thread with PayPal it does say a lot about NCSoft itself.

Sidenote: I usually purchase stuff through the GW store via visa debit card. seems to be much better going through there than through the NCSoft site, which makes me wonder if that one is being run by Anet itself.

Infanta · May 08, 2010, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

If it is for so-called fraudulent reasons (and no such thing took place), then yeah, I would suggest doing so. They paid for the game and paid for/were paying for additional stuff, so they do have the right to, especially when the company themselves are being hard to deal with. Given that the OP has said NCSoft has got a C- rating, and given what happened in the other thread with PayPal it does say a lot about NCSoft itself.

Sidenote: I usually purchase stuff through the GW store via visa debit card. seems to be much better going through there than through the NCSoft site, which makes me wonder if that one is being run by Anet itself.

Fraudulent reasons? It sounds to me like the OP tried to buy something from paypal with no money in his account then reversed the payment. Other people are talking about contacting the BBB over being banned for breaking in-game rules...

A game company has the right to ban your account for any reason they see fit. You agreed to that when you signed up for an account. There is nothing the BBB is going to do and contacting the BBB because you're mad you lost some pixels and $40 for either breaking the rules are mismanaging your money is only going to make you look like a fool.

The BBB is for serious business complaints, not for trying to blackmail NCSoft into giving you your account back.

Perpetua Gale · May 08, 2010, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Killed You..
The BBB will not sue you...that is not what they do nor do they have that capacity at least when it comes to a complaint/issue with a company.
They are consumer advocates. That means if you feel wronged by a company, brick and mortar or online, they are there for YOU.
This is a tool put into place to keep business honest.
While we may as individuals feel we are the only one with a problem...you never know until you file your complaint....it may turn out there are thousands of people being scammed/mistreated by a business with unethical/shady/illegal business practices...not that I am saying NCsoft is one of them..but thats what they said about ENRON.... so let the BBB know..let them do their job.
They are there for YOU the consumer!

Killed u man · May 08, 2010, 10:10 PM // 22:10

I just send an information email to BBB information desk regarding the EULA and Rules of Conduct. I asked if there is any point taking it up with them, for whatever reason, if you were forced to sign EULA/RoC prior to playing the game.

I know forced is a big word here, but I explained that by not signing those documents, you won't be able to play the game, and thus in order to play the game, you MUST sign those "contracts".

I can't wait for the reply ^^

Edit:

My line of fighting NCSoft will be something like this:

If it states in the EULA they can ban a person for any reason they want, when they want, it might be concidered invalid by acounts of the American Law.

Hence, since they have no proof I exploited their game (Which they don't, cuz I didn't), they simply can't ban me on grounds of exploiting their game.
And because having LS and LDoA is no violation of the Rules of Conduct (Again, the trolls out there, it is NOT), and not specifically mentioned in either the Rules of Conduct or EULA, they have no grounds to ban me on.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 08, 2010, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infanta

Fraudulent reasons? It sounds to me like the OP tried to buy something from paypal with no money in his account then reversed the payment. Other people are talking about contacting the BBB over being banned for breaking in-game rules...

A game company has the right to ban your account for any reason they see fit. You agreed to that when you signed up for an account. There is nothing the BBB is going to do and contacting the BBB because you're mad you lost some pixels and $40 for either breaking the rules are mismanaging your money is only going to make you look like a fool.

The BBB is for serious business complaints, not for trying to blackmail NCSoft into giving you your account back.

Check this thread out

My reading of it: NCSoft has been reported for taking payments out and so Paypal have put it on their watch list. There are two possible reasons for this A) people playing P2P games pulling out and when NCSoft goes to take the money for the next month the players report it to Paypal and/or B) the NCSoft site stuff that happened a few months back that lead to account stealing.

Now with that in mind I am seeing it as legit players wanting/making legit purchases are getting caught up in this and having their accounts banned when it isn't their fault. In the case of the linked thread, the person was trying to get online goods, Paypal saw it was from NCSoft and red-flagged it, meaning that NCSoft didnt get the money and thus banned the person for fraud when it wasn't even their fault.

Black Metal · May 08, 2010, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infanta

Fraudulent
A game company has the right to ban your account for any reason they see fit.

The BBB is for serious business complaints

Since banning an account, and what measures a person may take outside of NCSoft support to fight that, is what this thread really is about, let's be perfectly clear here.

NCSoft does NOT have the right (in the legal sense) to ban your account for any reason they see fit. They do generally have the right to ban your account for any reason stated in the EULA, although the EULA can be fought in a court of law (not that it's warranted in this case, I'm just stating this in general). However, NCSoft does not have the *legal* right to ban your account of any reason whatsoever. They can't decide to ban your account because of your gender, ethnicity, age, physical handicap, or sexual preference (these legal issues go MUCH deeper than a POS EULA), they can't just arbitrarily ban accounts for no reason at all, and they can't legally ban an account because PayPal called their store a potentially fraudulent site. And if NCSoft won't cooperate in a timely manner (aka being given the run around) to lift an unjust ban, then by all means let the BBB know about this, along with all supporting facts and statements you can provide.

Now, it's each person's decision as to what constitutes a serious business complaint. Let each individual be the judge of this.

sixdartbart · May 08, 2010, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infanta

The BBB is for serious business complaints, not for trying to blackmail NCSoft into giving you your account back.

^^^^^

I can't believe snotty little kids are actually trying to use the BBB because they lost their account for CHEATING!!!
These people have way better things to do with their time and resources other than dealing with trivial BS like this and saying you didn't cheat 1000 more times will not make it true so give that a rest already. {did I notice that your wiki id was banned or deleted for being such an abussive little twit on there?}

BBBs time being wasted on something this stupid as well as morons wanting to sue someone everytime they get their feelings hurt is what is dragging society into the sewers, the money that BBB will WASTE in even reading your complaint formerly belonged to the taxpayers of the USA so thanks a bunch for that.

May karma someday repay you in the form of some other moron suing your ass off over the stupidist possible thing that they can think of maybe they can even get you some jail time if there is justice in the world!!!

Hyperventilate · May 08, 2010, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

My line of fighting NCSoft will be something like this:

If it states in the EULA they can ban a person for any reason they want, when they want, it might be concidered invalid by acounts of the American Law.

Hence, since they have no proof I exploited their game (Which they don't, cuz I didn't), they simply can't ban me on grounds of exploiting their game.
And because having LS and LDoA is no violation of the Rules of Conduct (Again, the trolls out there, it is NOT), and not specifically mentioned in either the Rules of Conduct or EULA, they have no grounds to ban me on.

A: They can ban you for any reason that violates their EULA and Terms of Service, both of which are subject to change at any time without prior or post notification to the players. Your situation broke the EULA after it was updated.

B: They can look at the skills you've used. If you did use the hard res for LS and LDoA like you said you did, that's their proof. You had a skill that wasn't supposed to be in Pre. Enough said.

The BBB should be used for legitimate issues, such as being scammed by a contractor. Not for petty issues such as, "I was banned, fix it."

As I said, the BBB cannot unban your account. All they can do is bring the issue up with NCSoft. They cannot force them to unban you for any reason. There is a high probability that NCSoft will respond, "You're SOL, Buddy." And that's the end of that.

The BBB isn't going to be a miracle cure-all for any account related woes, since they can't actually DO anything to change it. Except possibly inform you how to sue the company, but I don't see how "I was perma'd" is a valid excuse for a lawsuit.

Kumu Honua · May 08, 2010, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Lol. People thinking that the BBB makes any difference whatsoever.

EA has had a D (Last time I was looking into this sort of thing) for well over 2 years. Do you really think anyone cares? They look up the information and magically say "HOLY CRAP! They have a D rating! I'm not going to buy game X now for sure?!?!?!"

Right.

It's a placebo. You make a complaint to BBB and get to think that you have "Stuck it to the man".

Arm · May 08, 2010, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perpetua Gale

I, like Amand, who posted earlier have also had issues with NCsoft, not GUILD WARS but NCsoft in particular. I have found the fastest and probably most effective way to get their attention is to contact the Better Business Bureau of Austin, TX.
If your account has been banned, charges not being processed properly ..etc. contact them through the online complaint system and they will act fast and you will get a response much faster than using the NCsoft contact website. I don't even mess with the NCsoft site. Whenever there is something wrong I immediately contact the BBB.
By also getting the BBB involved you lay a framework for any future legal action you may wish to pursue.
https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx
Currently NCsoft has a rating of C- from the BBB......

Good Luck to everyone in your dispute resolution.

@the moron above.
Clearly by the post, he is telling u how to deal with legitimate problems.
I for one would definately use the BBB if I had a problem with a company as I have in the past. The thing about the BBB is they actually LOOK INTO the matter. A company doesn't get a C- rating if they didn't do a bunch of bad stuff ;P
Really this whole thread is basically done. He gave some good advice, and all the whining about taxpayer's dollars is pathetic if u think about how much the government wastes on it's officials...
and the BBB is a great way to check up on a company. So you would buy a game from someone who has a D score...ok(dumb but ok ;P). Would u hire someone to fix your roof with a D?

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 08, 2010, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

^^^^^

I can't believe snotty little kids are actually trying to use the BBB because they lost their account for CHEATING!!!
These people have way better things to do with their time and resources other than dealing with trivial BS like this and saying you didn't cheat 1000 more times will not make it true so give that a rest already. {did I notice that your wiki id was banned or deleted for being such an abussive little twit on there?}

BBBs time being wasted on something this stupid as well as morons wanting to sue someone everytime they get their feelings hurt is what is dragging society into the sewers, the money that BBB will WASTE in even reading your complaint formerly belonged to the taxpayers of the USA so thanks a bunch for that.

May karma someday repay you in the form of some other moron suing your ass off over the stupidist possible thing that they can think of maybe they can even get you some jail time if there is justice in the world!!!

If you actually read the OP, it isnt suggesting it for people who have been banned through cheating but through NCSoft issues, such as the account hacking and fraud which is NCSofts fault (ie being redflagged by Paypal) and not the fault of the user

Kumu Honua · May 09, 2010, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arm

@the moron above.
Clearly by the post, he is telling u how to deal with legitimate problems.
I for one would definately use the BBB if I had a problem with a company as I have in the past. The thing about the BBB is they actually LOOK INTO the matter. A company doesn't get a C- rating if they didn't do a bunch of bad stuff ;P
Really this whole thread is basically done. He gave some good advice, and all the whining about taxpayer's dollars is pathetic if u think about how much the government wastes on it's officials...
and the BBB is a great way to check up on a company. So you would buy a game from someone who has a D score...ok(dumb but ok ;P). Would u hire someone to fix your roof with a D?

I wasn't responding to his post. I was responding to the thread in general. Most obviously (Well, maybe not to you.) I was directing my response to the people with minor complaints who are all over this "ZOMG! REPORT TO THE BBB!" crap.

Yes, I would and have bought games from companies with bad ratings. Millions do: http://www.wow.com/2009/04/20/blizza...siness-bureau/

Roofer with a D? I wouldn't even know. I would have instead been doing my research on the company via checking with the city for code violations, lawsuits, and other factors that actually hold meaning beyond "I got fat eating at McDonald's. It's their fault."

sixdartbart · May 09, 2010, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

If you actually read the OP, it isnt suggesting it for people who have been banned through cheating but through NCSoft issues, such as the account hacking and fraud which is NCSofts fault (ie being redflagged by Paypal) and not the fault of the user

And if you "actually read" anything other than the OP you may have figured out my post was directed at

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I just send an information email to BBB information desk regarding the EULA and Rules of Conduct. I asked if there is any point taking it up with them, for whatever reason, if you were forced to sign EULA/RoC prior to playing the game.

I know forced is a big word here, but I explained that by not signing those documents, you won't be able to play the game, and thus in order to play the game, you MUST sign those "contracts".

I can't wait for the reply ^^

Edit:

My line of fighting NCSoft will be something like this:

If it states in the EULA they can ban a person for any reason they want, when they want, it might be concidered invalid by acounts of the American Law.

Hence, since they have no proof I exploited their game (Which they don't, cuz I didn't), they simply can't ban me on grounds of exploiting their game.
And because having LS and LDoA is no violation of the Rules of Conduct (Again, the trolls out there, it is NOT), and not specifically mentioned in either the Rules of Conduct or EULA, they have no grounds to ban me on.

who has been having this same tantrum on guru and wiki for far too long and now feels he has legal recourse thanks to this stupid topic...

JR · May 09, 2010, 12:10 AM // 00:10

If you feel like you have a case with the Better Business Bureau then go ahead and get in touch with them. I don't see why we need a thread discussing it.

I'd also reiterate what Jenn said: Don't waste their time.